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However, Absalom is not named nor is he even hinted at. [a]ll the expressions used in this verse would probably be applicable to Ahithophel, and to the intimacy between him and David., This was also the conclusion of the classical Jewish sources, such as the Targums and the Talmud, as explained in, But it was thou,. In this article. This would be based on physical and social maturity. Bathsheba was the daughter of Eliam (2 Samuel 11:3, Ammiel in 1 Chronicles 3:5). As I recall, the woman who lived in the trailer and her husband were estranged. [29] David J. Zucker writes that "[s]he is a victim of 'power rape'". Im not a non-Muslim. [6] https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/smiths-bible-dictionary/ahithophel.html, [7] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/ats/a/ahithophel.html, Ahithophel seems to have been the grandfather of Bathsheba., [8] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/fbd/a/ahithophel.html, Ahithophel was the mainspring of the rebellion. Eliam. David was one of the greatest men in Scripture. She was most likely between the ages of 12-14, which means a 40 year old man married such a young girl. And in the list of David's thirty in 1 Chronicles 11:36 we have Ahijah the Pelonite. It is even in Sahih International. Ahithophel was known as Davids counsellor, [41] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/pmc/psalms-55.html#23, And the prayer here used is followed with another in the history, to turn the counsel of Ahitophel, an enemy of his, but held in great reputation, into foolishness., [42] https://www.studylight.org/commentary/psalms/55-13.html, My guide my counselor; as Ahithophel was to David (1 Samuel 15:12; 1 Samuel 16:23)., [43] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/kad/psalms/55.htm, This Old Testament Judas is none other than Ahithphel, the right hand of Absalom., [44] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/lange/psalms/55.htm, In retaining this reference to David, however, we are not to think of Doeg, Ps. Tomorrow Ill send you back. So Uriah stayed in Jerusalem that day. By the way, I made a website and I have debunked the claim which you have made Allah the Moon God. A hadith quoted in Tafsir al-Kabir and Majma' al-Bayan expresses that Ali ibn Abi Talib said: "Whoever says that David, has married Uriah's wife as the legends are narrate, I will punish him twice: one for qazf (falsely accusing someone of adultery) and the other for desecrating the prophethood (defamation of prophet David)". Uriah the Hittite and Eliam, being both of the kings guard (consisting of 37 officers), were intimate, and Uriah married the daughter of his brother officer (https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/fbd/a/ahithophel.html). But as for me, I trust in you.. For Davids close counselor and friend, Ahithophel, actually revolted against David when Absalom did. Why is it assumed that a 3040 years old Ahithophel could not have a granddaughter? They shall live as long as the Lord of life, the righteous Judge, has appointed, with whom the number of our months is; but he has determined to cut them off by an untimely death in the midst of their days., [58] https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/spurgeon_charles/tod/ps055.cfm?a=533023, A wicked man never lives out half his days; for either he is cut off before he hath lived half the course of nature, or he is cut off before he hath lived a quarter of the course of his desires; either he lives not half so long as he would; and therefore let him die when he will, his death is full of terror, trouble, and confusion, because he dies out of season. While David was walking on the roof of his palace, he saw Bathsheba having a bath so David placed her husband in the front lines of the battlefield, in order to get killed, so that he could marry Bathsheba." Nathan (son of David) - Wikipedia According to the chronology of 2 Samuel 1315, two years had passed since Amnon had raped his half-sister Tamar (Absaloms sister), Thus, the Talmud sages did not left out the 4 years that went by between Absalom and Davids reconciliation and the beginning of Absaloms revolt. If the historical David (peace be upon him) had indeed married Bathsheba at such a young age (without committing adultery), the marriage would not have been consummated until she was physically mature, which would have been at the onset of puberty. Bathsheba and David That Ahithophel had then a married grand-daughter is less probable than that there were in Israel two Eliams.[81]. Yes he had her husband Uriah killed in battle then he married her. However, I will add that seven years is noticeably young, even by the standards of the time. [2] Of course, in the previous article, I showed evidence from within the Bible. WebIt is true that Davids affair with Bathsheba while her husband was at the battle front constituted adultery. Actually, God had no problem with it. WebSolomon is a possible heir and he has support as well, but he is only 12 years old and there is no obvious reason to prefer him over Adonijah. [61], Thus, it is reasonable to conclude that Ahithophel must have died at a relatively young age. "[32] Antony F. Campbell states "The 'violation of Bathsheba' may be the least unsatisfactory terminology, especially given the ambivalence of the text's storytelling. While puberty could occur at such an early age, it is unlikely. And in 2 Samuel 13 the story of David's son Amnon's rape of his sister Tamar, told so soon after the incident of Bathsheba, seems to draw a parallel between the sexual misconduct of father and son. Davids action, as Brueggemann (1990:272) describes it, was a demonstration of human desire and human power.. He never kept time or season with God, and surely God will not keep or regard his time or season., In the Jewish account threescore years was the age of a man, and death at any time before that was looked upon as untimely, The more sins we do commit, the more we hasten our own death; because as the wise man saith, The fear of the Lord prolongeth days, but the years of the wicked shall be shortened (Pro 10:27); and the prophet David saith, Bloody and deceitful men shall not live out half their days; for sin is an epitomiser or shortener of everything: it consumes our wealth, it confines our liberty, it impeaches our health, and it abbreviates our life, and brings us speedily unto our grave., [61] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/wen/psalms-55.html#23, But shall be cut off by an untimely and violent death., David was thirty years old when he became king, and he reigned forty years., Saul was thirty years old when he became king, and he reigned over Israel forty-two years.. The table below shows a summary of In fact, the ages of women are not mentioned except in a few places (e.g., the age of Sarah when she gave birth to Isaac). Born: c. 1000 BCE in Bethlehem, Israel Parents: Jesse and Nitzevet (according to the 1. See here for the sheep ate the Quran polemic: Could you also tell or contact the author of this article telling him that a man having a channel called Islam Critiqued claimed to have refuted or debunked the marriage of Rebekah and Isaac. Uriah is summoned from the front 16:21), which sooner or later would have brought with it, according to Jewish law, the penalty of death; the motive for this advice being to remove Absalom, and thus to make a way for himself to the throne. [13], The Midrash portrays the influence of Satan bringing about the sinful relation of David and Bathsheba as follows: Bathsheba was bathing, perhaps behind a screen of wickerwork. This was also the conclusion of the classical Jewish sources, such as the Targums and the Talmud, as explained in Gills Exposition of the Entire Bible: But it was thou,. He therefore induced Absalom to commit an unpardonable crime (2 Sam. Bible: Child Marriage in Ancient Israelite times Paedophilia? Using Psalm 55:23, it would mean that Ahithophel could not have gone past the age of 45 years (note again that this is the conservative estimate). David's punishment came to pass years later when one of David's much-loved sons, Absalom, led an insurrection that plunged the kingdom into civil war. Moreover, to manifest his claim to be the new king, Absalom had sexual intercourse in public with ten of his father's concubines, which could be considered a direct, tenfold divine retribution for David's taking the woman of another man in secret (2 Samuel 16:2023). How[c] could I go home and eat, drink, and have sex with my wife? According to the decree of God, he might have lived the other half; but he has not done it., [57] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/mhcw/psalms/55.htm, They are bloody and deceitful men (that is, the worst of men) and therefore shall not live out half their days, not half so long as men ordinarily live, and as they might have lived in a course of nature, and as they themselves expected to live. Cmon bro, dont get me wrong. How old was Bathsheba When David married her? David's genealogy in 1 Chronicles 3 says that he had 19 sons by his wives and concubines and one daughter, Tamar, whose mother isn't named in scripture. Who Were King David's Wives in the Bible - Names and Importance This is confirmed by most dictionaries, including Smiths Bible Dictionary,[6] the American Tract Society Bible Dictionary,[7] Fausetts Bible Dictionary,[8] the Holman Bible Dictionary,[9] Hastings Bible Dictionary,[10] the Morrish Bible Dictionary,[11] the Peoples Dictionary of the Bible,[12] and the Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological and Ecclesiastical Literature. Thus, while some people (a very small minority) may have lived into their 90s (though no proof exists from the Bible), this would not have been the normal extent of life at the time. The recorded events of Davids life after his misconduct with Bathsheba cannot have occupied less than about twenty years; that is, he cannot have been at the time older than about fifty years. Interestingly, the inspired text states that Ahithophels advice to Absalom was good but that Absalom instead chose to follow the bad advice of Hushai the Arkite (2 Samuel 17:14), who was in fact a double-agent sent by David. However, he did not further complicate or solidify his adultery by marrying her. This relationship probably led to Ahithophels disloyalty (2 Samuel 15:12)., [18] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/ghe/2-samuel-15.html#1, Ahithophel was very likely the grandfather of Bathsheba, [19] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/hcc/2-samuel-11.html#3, The grandfather of Bethsabee is supposed to have revolted against David, to revenge the wrong done to her., [20] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jfu/2-samuel-23.html#34, Eliam the son of Ahithophel the Gilonite , [ Eliy`aam (Hebrew #463)] omitted in the parallel list of 1 Chronicles 11:1-47; traditionally believed to be the same as the person mentioned, 2 Samuel 11:23 (Jerome, Quaest. Note that the Bible describes Bathsheba at this time as very beautiful (2 Samuel 11:2) and David was overcome with feelings of lust for her! Excuse me author but can you also respond to the claims that a sheep ate the Quran. Bathsheba: Bible | Jewish Women's Archive To make matters worse, we need to allow at least 18 months (two pregnancies) between Davids first encounter with Bathsheba and Solomons birth (2 Samuel 11), which means that Bathsheba was around 79 years old at the time. [26], The only interpolations that concern the story of Bathsheba are some verses in the early part of the twelfth chapter, that heighten the moral tone of Nathan's rebuke of David. The man said, She is Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam and the wife of Uriah the Hittite.. As an opportunity to feature a large female nude as the focus of a history painting, the subject was popular from the Renaissance onwards. But, let us be even more generous and round it up to 80. esteemed by David as such; refers to Ahithophel., [36] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/tcc/psalms-55.html#12, We may observe here, that this description answers perfectly well to Achitophel, whom David had used as his counsellor and friend, and to whom he had committed his most important secrets, [37] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/benson/psalms/55.htm, The Chaldee paraphrase names Ahithophel as the person here meant, and certainly the description agrees perfectly well to him, whom David had used as his counsellor and friend, and to whom he had committed his most important secrets; and certainly nothing in the plot of the rebels seems to have discouraged David so much as to hear that Ahithophel was among the conspirators with Absalom., [38] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/clarke/psalms/55.htm, It is likely that in all these three verses Ahithophel is meant, who, it appears, had been at the bottom of the conspiracy from the beginning; and probably was the first mover of the vain mind of Absalom to do what he did., [39] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jtc/psalms-55.html. He confirmed Bathshebas words. Ironically, the evidence comes from the life of her grandfather Ahithophel, who happened to be Davids counselor (2 Samuel 15:12) and was involved in Absaloms conspiracy to overthrow David (this is a very important issue that we will consider later). David married when he slept with Bathsheba? - Answers David also prayed to God to confuse the wicked, [and] confound their words (55:9) and that God would bring down the wicked into the pit of decay (55:23). You struck down Uriah the Hittite with the sword and took his wife to be your own. There is no doubt that, initially, many will go into denial-overdrive. This elite group also included Uriah the Hittite (v. 39). David pleaded with God to spare his child, fasting and spending the nights lying in sackcloth on the ground (2 Samuel 12:1617), but after seven days the child died (2 Samuel 12:18). King David accepted this as his punishment, went to the house of Yahweh and worshipped him (2 Samuel 12:2023). Bathsheba later gave birth to David's son Solomon. At the entrance to her driveway was a small lot, where a small mobile home was parked. However, in 1 Chronicles the names are very different: Bathsheba is called Bathshua the daughter of Ammiel in 1 Chronicles 3:5. This is where Psalm 55 comes in. But this is not reasonable. In this section, I will try to pre-empt some possible Christian objections. Thus, it was not child marriage at the time since maturity tended to occur much earlier than it does now. He states that: an arbitrary age cutoff necessarily allows incompetent people to gain rights and privileges they probably shouldnt have.[101]. The Pulpit Commentary adds (emphasis ours): Of course, the statement is not intended for a universal law, and indeed was probably pointed especially at the bloody and deceitful men of whom the psalmist had been speaking. Dr. J. Vernon McGee, in a commentary he gave on Thru the Bible Radio, also identified the betrayal by Ahithophel as the subject of the psalm,[48] and so does Eastons Bible Dictionary (among many others). 1 Chronicles omits all reference to the way in which Bathsheba became David's wife, and gives only the names of her children in 1 Chronicles 3:5Shimea, Shobab, Nathan, and Solomon. Why Was Abishag so Important to King David and They will vociferously deny that Bathsheba was around 7 years old (or perhaps as old as 9) when she first encountered David and they will deny that she was the granddaughter of Ahithophel. However, this was clearly not the norm (even if true). So, here is a summary about Ahithophel and his role during Davids reign: If Ahithophel was Bathshebas grandfather, then determining his approximate age would allow us to estimate Bathshebas age as well. Her feast day is 27 November (01 Tahsas). Based on this seemingly contradictory information, let us follow the conservative route, as always, and assume that Solomon was around 20 years old at the time of his ascension. " : ( ) " (, "Bathsheba's Story: Surviving Abuse and Loss", "Bathsheba at the Bath, object 1 (Butlin 390) "Bathsheba at the Bath", "Ahithophel in the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia", "Is There a Queen in the Kingdom of Heaven? You are committing a tu quoque fallacy!, an informal fallacy that intends to discredit the opponents argument by asserting the opponents failure to act consistently in accordance with its conclusion(s)., Thus, when Christians say that Muhammads (peace be upon him) marriage to Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) was immoral, and if Muslims were to respond by saying well, the Biblical figures married young girls too, so they are also immoral, that would be a tu quoque fallacy. Or examples of sex slaves in the Bible (I remember Hagar and Jacobs slaves were used for sex to have babies). Bathsheba, also known as Bathshua, is a character that appears in the Hebrew Bible (2 Samuel 11, 12; 1 Kings 1, 2). [76] Moreover, he did not live in the time of David but more than 100 years after him. [67] Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that the average lifespan at the time was around 7080 years (note that this is a very generous assumption). [4] Sanhedrin 69b, https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.69b.11?lang=bi. The only solution would be to assume that Ahithophel was mentioned in passing and was actually dead (the Chronicler states that Ahithophel was succeeded by Jehoiada). First, the account in Chronicles omits the sordid stories of David and Bathsheba and Absaloms revolt, and only mentions some characters in passing, so we do not have much information about Bathsheba, Eliam, or Ahithophel. He [David] now remembers that, at the heart of Absaloms rebellion, giving it direction and force, indeed making it possible, is Ahithophel., [33] https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/spurgeon_charles/tod/ps055.cfm?a=533001, It would be idle to fix a time, and find an occasion for this Psalm with any dogmatism. King David once saw Bathsheba bathing on her terrace. David had multiple wives already, and Bathsheba was married to Uriah Bathsheba was uncovered (bathing) within sight of the palace, and should have known 1 From the passage itself (2 Samuel 12:15b-23), once he was born the child immediately was struck with the sickness and died on the 7th day. Once David took the bait, Nathan pronounced Gods judgment: This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: I anointed you king over Israel Why did you despise the word of the Lord by doing what is evil in his eyes? An Eliam is mentioned in 2 Samuel 23:34 as the son of Ahithophel, who is described as the Gilonite. There is no hint that the writer is a king whose authority is threatened by a formidable insurrection. If Solomon was 11 years old at the time of Ahithophels death (the non-conservative estimate), then Bathsheba would have been around 9 years old at the time of Solomons birth. Some have also questioned whether Ahithophel would have been old enough to have a granddaughter. and Ali Al-Ridha said "At that time, women whose husbands passed away or got killed in the war would never get married again (and this was the source of many evils). The reality is that they were the most likely the same person. Ellicotts Commentary for English Readers not only questions this interpretation but also the traditional assumption of Davidic authorship: Its date and authorship must be left in the region of mere conjecture. My bad. [3] An Eliam is mentioned in 2 Samuel 23:34 as the son of Ahithophel, who is described as the Gilonite. As far as I am aware, this evidence has not been discussed before in Muslim-Christian debates, so it is completely new (though it is not a new discovery). It should also be borne in mind that David was a prophet, as stated in Acts 2:30: But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne.. Second, the Chronicler seemed to indicate that Ahithophel was still alive when David was old and nearing death! However, we can still estimate her age using the Biblical chronology. The son of Ahithophel (2 Samuel 23:34). I reccommend you telling him to respond to this video. See my videos here: I agree that Rebekah was not 3 years old. Change). Note that the dictionary does not deny that Ahithophel was Bathshebas granddaughter or that he was the subject of Psalm 55. [73] Sanhedrin 69b, https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.69b.11?lang=bi. Rather, David laments being betrayed by: a man like myself, my companion, my close friend, with whom I enjoyed sweet fellowship[28]. Would David have called Ahithophel a man mine equal (, The more sins we do commit, the more we hasten our own death; because as the wise man saith, The fear of the Lord prolongeth days, but the years of the wicked shall be shortened (Pro 10:27); and the prophet David saith, , Uriah the Hittite and Eliam, being both of the kings guard (consisting of 37 officers), were intimate, and Uriah married the daughter of his brother officer (, Son of Ahithophrl and father of Bathsheba (, https://quranandbibleblog.wordpress.com/2020/06/10/the-age-of-marriage-in-the-bible/, https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.69b.11?lang=bi, https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/smiths-bible-dictionary/ahithophel.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/ats/a/ahithophel.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/fbd/a/ahithophel.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hbd/a/ahithophel.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hdb/a/ahithophel.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/mbd/a/ahithophel-.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/rpd/a/ahithophel.html, https://www.studylight.org/encyclopedias/mse/a/ahithophel.html, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/bnb/2-samuel-11.html#3, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/bcc/2-samuel-12.html#1, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/dcc/2-samuel-15.html#1, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/bul/2-samuel-11.html#3, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/ghe/2-samuel-15.html#1, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/hcc/2-samuel-11.html#3, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jfu/2-samuel-23.html#34, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jtc/2-samuel-11.html#3, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/isn/psalms-41.html#1, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/lmg/2-samuel-15.html#1, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/mac/2-samuel-12.html#13, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/tsk/2-samuel-23.html#34, 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https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/wen/psalms-55.html#13, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/whe/psalms-55.html#13, http://blb-ra.blueletterbible.org/mcgee_j_vernon/Psa/19134_Psalm_55_1-5.mp3, https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/eastons-bible-dictionary/ahithophel.html, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/ellicott/psalms/55.htm, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/cambridge/psalms/55.htm, https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16276/showrashi/true/jewish/Chapter-55.htm, https://www.sefaria.org/Pirkei_Avot.6?lang=bi, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/psalms/55-23.htm, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/gill/psalms/55.htm, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jtc/psalms-55.html#23, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/mhcw/psalms/55.htm, https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/spurgeon_charles/tod/ps055.cfm?a=533023, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/wen/psalms-55.html#23, https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5288&t=KJV, https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H7390&t=KJV, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jfu/2-chronicles-24.html#15, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/mbd/e/eliam-.html, https://www.biblestudytools.com/encyclopedias/isbe/ahithophel.html, https://www.biblestudytools.com/concordances/naves-topical-bible/eliam.html, https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/eastons-bible-dictionary/eliam.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/fbd/e/eliam.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hdb/e/eliam.html, https://www.studylight.org/encyclopedias/mse/e/eliam.html, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/barnes/2_samuel/11.htm, https://www.studylight.org/commentary/2-samuel/11-3.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/ckb/a/ahithophel.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/fbd/p/pelonite.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hbd/p/pelonite.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hdb/p/pelonite.html, https://www.studylight.org/encyclopedias/mse/p/pelonite.html, http://m.qtafsir.com/Surah-An-Nisa/Giving-Back-the-Property-of-th, Benjamin Tudelas Description Of Jews In 12th CenturyBaghdad, https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+15%3A19-30&version=NIV, Our Christian Brothers Must Root Out The Extremists In TheirMidst, Analysing The Incident Of Sad b. 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